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Q&A Using Flexsim and building models |
#1
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What's the difference of using ACC / DEC and not using them...?
I want to know the differences about when using Acceleration / Deceleration and Not using them.
I attached the example model file. Their moving animations are same. I want to know when using them and what will be different after setting acc / dec? |
#2
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Hello syseo,
you can change the traveling speed with a photo eye. The item reaches this speed with the deceleration or acceleration values. A value of Zero changes the speed instantly. Jörg |
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syseo (02-12-2015) |
#3
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Dear. Vogel. Thanks, but It's same after three items moved.
Hi.
Thanks. I set two or three photo-eyes in two lines. Until two or three items moved on conveyors, It show some different moving feature But after three items moved, moving speeds are same. What's problem in my setting? |
#4
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I don't know exactly what else you would expect. If you set all conveyor speeds to 10, then even if their acc/dec is really small, they're eventually all going to get to a conveyor speed of 10, at which point all items will travel down the conveyor at the same rate.
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#5
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Hello Anthony,
you are looking at the conveyor module from the engineering view point. If you set the conveyor to a new speed, then the motor has to accelarate or decelerate the conveyor wether there is an item on it or not. After some time the conveyor transports the items with the new set speed. From the discrete event based view you can anticipate that there is a generell speed for every entering item, then the item travel with a new speed after a photo eye. We were able to implement such behaviour with the basic conveyor object. The other approach was setting a new speed with a command instantly. The effects of acceleration and deceleration are new. In the past was the focus on the item on the conveyor object not the object itself. This new behaviour makes it difficult to work with the new module. Since it has got the bug with forking of items at the end of one conveyor into two different directions on other conveyors. And we are not able to use the standard old conveyor objects from the library anymore if the conveyor module is loaded. If we load the module we are forced to use it. There is no choice. Something we have appreciated in the past. The possiblity to decide how to accomplish something is gone. And the look of the object doesn't fit to the other objects. It is very abstract at the beginning. There are no legs, there is no texture. It is cold. It floats over the grid. To let it look like the standard objects we have to change it. Something we haven't had to do in the previous versions. Yes, I think we will love this object soon, but it looks strange with the other objects in a new model. Jörg |
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syseo (02-20-2015) |
#6
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Joerg,
one of the undocumented features of the new version is, that you can still use the "old" conveyor objects: In the "Environment" tab of the "Global Preferences" GUI check the box for"Display Legacy Conveyors in the Library". This is switched off by default and switching it on will show the old conveyor objects in the drag-drop library grid as you are used to. Best wishes Ralf FlexSim |
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Jörg Vogel (02-18-2015) |
#7
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Joerg,
I disagree with you on several points. First, 90% of the time a conveyor system is a "pushed" system. What I mean by that is that the things on the system are usually pushed by the conveyor they're on, not by themselves. Therefore the things on the system follow the speed of the motor that is pushing them. If you want to change the speed of an item, you change the speed of the conveyor the item is on. If you have to do that in real life, why not have the simulation implement it that way as well? The only "standard conveyor" exceptions that I've seen so far is perhaps gravity flow conveyors and if you want to actually simulate slippage, but I think those are usually less critical elements of a simulation. So in implementing the new conveyor system where the items follow the speed of the conveyor, we are implementing to 90% of conveyor systems. The basic conveyor on the other hand implemented to 10% of cases, and for users to simulate the 90%, they often had to loop through the content of the conveyor to set item states whenever something changed. In the 10% of cases where items are actually self-driven, i.e. the motor is actually part of the item that is moving, I think the AGV module can cover a lot of that space (and if it doesn't, our development should be aimed to make it cover more). I think the AGV module and Conveyor modules split the space pretty well: if it's self-driven, use AGV's, if it's conveyor-driven, use conveyors. I do not regret the decision to make the new conveyor system conveyor-driven. Secondly, we want people to use the new conveyor module, BY DEFAULT. So, when we asked ourselves, do we install the conveyor module by default, the answer was a definite yes. Then, do we leave in the old conveyors as well, so that new users will be presented with two completely different sets of conveyors to choose from in their library? To me the obvious answer to that is no, because we'd just be confusing new users. In addition, now that we have the new conveyor system, we want to push people to use the new system as much as possible, for tech support reasons. The fewer different types of objects that people are using (especially when their functionalities are redundant), the easier it is for our tech support staff to support our user base. So we want to get people up on the new stuff as quickly as possible. And I don't want to spend any more development time fixing bugs in the basic conveyor. For these reasons, I don't regret putting the new conveyor system in and removing the old conveyor system by default. Perhaps we're pushing our older users a bit fast, but that was our decision. Old users who have to have the old stuff can still tick the box in their preferences. Regarding the look of the conveyors, I wanted to make the conveyors look awesome in render mode, with real rollers, not just a texture mapped onto a plane. The problem is, with FlexSim's current version of OpenGL, we can't use instanced rendering, which can significantly improve render speed for the rollers. Right now a big system in render mode will render pretty slow. So I decided to make it draw in "CAD" mode by default. Perhaps that will change once we get instanced rendering in. For now it is what it is. I personally think it looks clean and nice for laying a conveyor system out over a cad drawing. The only drawback may be that it's not consistent (although neither is our default flowitem box, or astar, or agv networks, or network nodes, or object connections...). BTW, if you don't want the conveyor system to float above the grid, if you set the default conveyor type's leg height to 0, it will be put on the ground by default. Usually though I think you want it above the ground, because that's the way most conveyor systems are. Last edited by Anthony Johnson; 02-18-2015 at 03:50 PM. |
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syseo (02-20-2015) |
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